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2021/04/28 H Sire attempts

Into phase 2!  58% our best...comments later.

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Honesty
High Council
Last seen: 29 min 23 sec ago
Joined: 11/17/2005 - 12:18

So, this may be a question to healers about "what can we do"...  Here's an extreme zoom in to the few seconds before our first death on our best attempt.  It's just a bit before the second blood price, so after the second set of adds spawn and as we deal with the night hunters.  Here's the damage taken chart:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/VdptMA9fL7mcqQjX/#fight=9&start=5976541&end=5980169&type=damage-taken

Tanks take more damage due to melee.  The people at the very bottom of the chart took less damage because they didn't help soak.  Everyone else is pretty equal in damage taken. 

Snowfrost and Slippknot are the two targets for the hunter and take insatiable hunger, but that is only 8K, while the people that helped soak took 4k (Night Hunter), so that's not very different.  (Note--looks like Rom was close to Slipp and got hit by the charge as well.)  There's some variation in damage taken, but it's remarkably even.

Now, for the same time, here's the healing done to each person:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/VdptMA9fL7mcqQjX/#fight=9&start=5976541&end=5980169&type=healing&by=target

Look way down the list to the bottom, just barely above the pets, there's Snow.  He had a few ticks (this is only a 3 second window) of a hot, and dies.  Looking at the replay, he is the furthest out of anyone, but not by a huge amount. 

Were we using only limited range healing spells?  Did we run up against "aoe caps" for heals (I know mass dispel is limited to 5, for example)?  Do we have to make sure that the night hunter targets stay within 20 yards of everyone?

It's unrealistic to expect that someone can react in just the 3 seconds shown.  I suppose we could assign someone to spot heal the night hunter targets, but it seems like there's a lot going on already.  How do we keep everyone alive?

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Lierra
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Last seen: 1 week 5 days ago
Joined: 12/13/2005 - 05:16

 I know when I am using group heals, the outlying characters often get left out.  Circle of Healing tends to go on the greatest concentration of people taking damage.  It's the only group heal where I can see exactly how many people I'm trying to put it down on - though of course I can't help it if people run out of it before it goes off <wry smile>.  My Holy Word 5 person heal MAY go on a hunter if I am watching the health bars rather than looking for concentrations of damage; it USED to heal everyone in a group, so back then watching the bars (which I keep in groups) was effective; nowadays, however, I have to choose a person to use it on and pray that there are 4 more people near enough to him that most of the heal isn't wasted.  Halo tends to hit everyone, unless the room is very big and people are standing around the edges.  After that, I'm mostly using single target heals and, as my current mouse is not programmable, that means my own personal dexterity (which gets worse as I get older <sigh>) is a gating factor.  There are MANY times when I put down a Healing Circle and WISH that the Hunter just outside its range had stepped just a bit closer to the group.  Nonetheless, I suspect that in these current fights where the entire raid is taking significant damage most healers are like me: bearing down hard on all the group heals we have at hand.  Also we try not to clutter Audible Chat with individual warnings to people, just in case the channel is needed for tanks or raid leader.  Should we be more often saying, "<outlier>, step into the group!"?  (As you say, 3 secs isn't enough to issue a warning, much less have it be acted upon.)

 

Yes, I need a better mouse.  If anyone knows a good multi-button programmable mouse for the Mac, I would be very grateful to know.  Most of the ones I have found say they are for the Mac but only programmable with a Windows machine. <sigh>

 

Twmshon
Member
Last seen: 5 days 21 hours ago
Joined: 09/29/2018 - 18:25

Of MICE and MEN . . .  I use a ROCCAT KONE programmable mouse. Yes, it can only be programmed on a Windows machine - but once it's programmed, it settings stay set.  You can then plug it into the Mac and do your keybindings as usual.   (I have a spare if you'd like to try it out!)

Twmshon
Member
Last seen: 5 days 21 hours ago
Joined: 09/29/2018 - 18:25

On Phase I Sire Denathrius . . .

I think the simple answer is for healers to put the Insatiable Hunger debuff on their raid frames.  Dd added that yesterday and so will be able to identify those afflicted and provide a rejuv or other healz as needed.  

As for the big picture, I was pleased we made it out of Phase 1 several times on WED.  The workload is very high for healers in Phase I with lotsa damage incoming and mechanics that can't be ignored.  Dd is slowly improving on SD Phase I with each attempt, similar to the progress we made on heroic Sludge.

My thoughts for next week . . . Cod is providing big heals either before or after each of the 3 Blood Prices and I think we should build on that foundation.  For healers with raid wide heals that have cooldowns of 2 min or less (e.g. talented Tranquility), we should have 1 or more assist on Blood Price #1 so those healz are available again for Blood Price #3.  After that, I'm not sure there is a priority for healing assignments.  Requirement should be 1 big heal before each Blood Price (tossed into the air) and 1 or 2 big heals right after we hit the ground.

Dd prefers to cast Tranq right after we hit the ground because that's an easy cue.  Trying to time Tranq before Blood Price is harder (and I can hear my Son recommending that Dd just get gud).

-Ddaear

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Roenn
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Last seen: 3 hours 22 min ago
Joined: 01/19/2010 - 16:19

Lierra has Holy Word: Salvation which when I play Dkari feels like the strongest healing cooldown for a Holy priest however it is on a 10 minute cooldown.  If the raid is just about to die it can totally save the day and it's a perfect cast before a Blood Price because it gets health up and then every raid member has 2 stacks of Renew on them.  

Per Lierra's post however she can weigh the usefulness of that big healing cooldown with instead for going with the Apotheosis talent which would give her a lot more mobile instant cast heals through Holy Word Sancify and Serenity.  It could be worth trying it out either way Lierra and seeing what is the best fit.  

Another option to consider trying Lierra is keeping up Prayer of Mending 100% of the time particularly with the Benediction talent.  Now that may not save someone the raw HPS it provides should generally keep folks higher.  It's something to try possibly over the Halo talent although Halo is quite good as well.  

There's a lot going on in this fight and whatever we can do to simplify it will be the path to success for us so I wouldn't necessarily want to inject more chatter mid raid for folks to move in for healing but instead ahead of the pull just make sure everyone is aware of what will help maximize the healers abilities.  I suspect as folks get more comfortable with the mechanics the groupings will naturally be tighter which will help those healing circles.  I do think it is a good idea to plan out a healing cooldown rotation like Dd laid out in the Generals First Kill thread. 

-Roenn

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Roenn
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Last seen: 3 hours 22 min ago
Joined: 01/19/2010 - 16:19

On the mouse bit...I use a Logitech G502 mouse (not sure about the Mac compatibility bit) and I bind most of my heals into that with Healbot (left click, right click, middle click, extra action button 1 click, extra action button 2 click) and then I also bind heals with SHIFT and CTRL since Holy has so many different spells.  The spells I use outside of Healbot are trinkets, Unholy Nova (Maldraxxus ability), Circle of Healing, Divine Hymn, Prayer of Healing, Holy Word: Salvation, and Holy Word: Sanctify.  Since those are all AoE heals it was just easier for me to use them outside of Healbot and they are literally bound to 2, 3, 4, 5 and so on.  I did bind Holy Word: Sanctify to a middle mouse click since you position that spell that allows me to position the mouse where I want it and then quickly click to cast it.  I don't think it's necssary to have a mouse with more than 5 buttons particularly if you use Healbot.  In fact I think a standard 3 button mouse would work but you have to be comfortable SHIFT, CTRL, ALT clicking the different heals.  

Holy priest has so many freaking things cooling down all of the time that I really needed a Weakaura to help with it.  This is the one I use - https://wago.io/BJu2WDqBX.  If you aren't using one Lierra maybe that could be helpful as well =)

Twmshon
Member
Last seen: 5 days 21 hours ago
Joined: 09/29/2018 - 18:25

MORE ON MICE

For more than a decade, I have been using a mouse with wheel click left and right, 2 'center buttons' just below the wheel and a thumb button.  With Shift and CTRL as Roenn mentioned, that's 15 instant clicks, not to mention WASD for movement and Q, E, R, and F for 4 more instant clicks.  I could probably add 1, 2, 3, and 4 but that hasn't been necessary and my left hand fingers would probably hit the wrong button every so often when traveling that far away from WASD home base. All of that clicking is of course in addition to standard left and right click buttons.   

My original mouse was a Logitech G5, but those were discontinued and mine eventually broke . . .  [pausing as sadness overwhelms me] . . . My current Kone mouse has that 5 extra button configuration plus a wheel click down and a 2nd thumb button, but I don't put anything important on those as I often accidentally click down on the wheel and my thumb is not very clever (unlike younger players) - so the 2nd thumb button feels awkward.  

I swear by grid2 for healing raid frames and build my own weakauras for cooldowns and other raid info.  Note that I don't do mouseover healing as I rarely need to keep the boss targeted and the global cooldown means I have plenty of time to select my next healing target.  This approach is probably heresy to many healers, but someone would have to provide a compelling reason for Dd to switch.  

-Ddaear